More on "Mr Nice Guy"
Richard Delevan and that girl both take a similar line - disappointment is a bad word for Bertie to use when refering to the Ferns report.
I'm very disappointed in those that were given vocations in the Church fell into such horrible sins. I'm very disappointed that those who should appear as paragons of Christian virtue were actually raping little children. I'm very disappointed that the institutional Church did not serve as it should - as Christ's bride and that Bishops were blinded to the true nature of what was happening and what was needed to be done.
I'm also disappointed that as a Catholic who still goes to Mass and tries to discern a spiritual path in this materialistic world we live in, using the wisdom of 2000 years as my guide, that everytime my religion, my spirituality is discussed it is reduced to the sins of a few.
Disappointment is a good word. So is anger - I'm angry. Most ordinary Catholics in pews every Sunday are also angry. Angry that the Church didn't act quick enough. Angry that priests were allowed become so spiritually rotten that sexual expoitation of children became a reality, albeit in a small number. Angry that the vast majority of the encounters that we have with the Church and its ministers, and its schools, were on the whole positive and enriching experiences and are wholly forgotten about.
Angry that every anti-Catholic crank is using this as a platform to wallop the Chuch on every issue known to the disciples of modern liberalism.
I'm pretty sure Bertie feels the same.
Richard says But the issue of control of schools is where the Church will make its last stand for worldly power in Ireland. They will not give easily. And as today's remarks by Bertie make clear, they will have sympathetic allies at the very top.
This is all fine and well - I would much rather that the Catholic Church did not have anything with public schools. Leave religion out of schools and make it the responsibility of families and parishes to educate children in their religion. (Subsidarity, anyone?)
Saying that the Church has some power in schools is pushing it - religion is currently a fairly insipid part of education.
But what to do?
Buy the schools?
Even a FG/Labour gov't won't rise taxes enough to buy the schools. Not when people languish on A&E trolleys and spend whole days on the Red Cow roundabout.
Let's be sensible about this.
Eagle also weighs in.
I'm quite exercised by all this (as evidenced by rant below!) and will be checking in a lot about it over next few days even though I'll be studying for clinical parts of my finals next week and will have a slow dial up connection!
I'm very disappointed in those that were given vocations in the Church fell into such horrible sins. I'm very disappointed that those who should appear as paragons of Christian virtue were actually raping little children. I'm very disappointed that the institutional Church did not serve as it should - as Christ's bride and that Bishops were blinded to the true nature of what was happening and what was needed to be done.
I'm also disappointed that as a Catholic who still goes to Mass and tries to discern a spiritual path in this materialistic world we live in, using the wisdom of 2000 years as my guide, that everytime my religion, my spirituality is discussed it is reduced to the sins of a few.
Disappointment is a good word. So is anger - I'm angry. Most ordinary Catholics in pews every Sunday are also angry. Angry that the Church didn't act quick enough. Angry that priests were allowed become so spiritually rotten that sexual expoitation of children became a reality, albeit in a small number. Angry that the vast majority of the encounters that we have with the Church and its ministers, and its schools, were on the whole positive and enriching experiences and are wholly forgotten about.
Angry that every anti-Catholic crank is using this as a platform to wallop the Chuch on every issue known to the disciples of modern liberalism.
I'm pretty sure Bertie feels the same.
Richard says But the issue of control of schools is where the Church will make its last stand for worldly power in Ireland. They will not give easily. And as today's remarks by Bertie make clear, they will have sympathetic allies at the very top.
This is all fine and well - I would much rather that the Catholic Church did not have anything with public schools. Leave religion out of schools and make it the responsibility of families and parishes to educate children in their religion. (Subsidarity, anyone?)
Saying that the Church has some power in schools is pushing it - religion is currently a fairly insipid part of education.
But what to do?
Buy the schools?
Even a FG/Labour gov't won't rise taxes enough to buy the schools. Not when people languish on A&E trolleys and spend whole days on the Red Cow roundabout.
Let's be sensible about this.
Eagle also weighs in.
I'm quite exercised by all this (as evidenced by rant below!) and will be checking in a lot about it over next few days even though I'll be studying for clinical parts of my finals next week and will have a slow dial up connection!
Labels: Catholicism
posted by Auds | 13:40
7 Comments:
It's not your spiritual practice that is being criticised at all - it's the management of it...the difference is crucial in my opinion. I see Bertie is disappointed with RTE this morning cos they allegedly didn't represent his views accurately yesterday...awww poor Bertie!
Catholics are angry and disappointed because, as Auds notes, priests were committing evil acts and the Bishops didn't respond correctly. That this was wrong, horrifically wrong, is beyond question.
What is not beyond question is the implication in many of the comments about the Church's role in education that the state somehow would have avoided these scandals. I think that's a patently false assumption. The Planning scandal, the blood bank scandal - people were killed for God's sake - are proof that the state was pretty good at hiding its dirty laundry.
And, although there are only a few state-run schools, they have had their share of sex abuse scandals. So, let's air the dirty laundry and fix the problem, but let's not pretend that state-ownership is a panacea.
There is a false choice between public schools, either religious or secular. Let's privatise this whole scene, although an intermediate stage of school vouchers could be considered.
Saying that the Church has some power in schools is pushing it - religion is currently a fairly insipid part of education.
The key word being "currently". As O'Donnell was correct in remarking, raising the issue was (until very recently) an unthinkable challenge to Church power. They richly deserve all the approbrium directed their way.
And, although there are only a few state-run schools, they have had their share of sex abuse scandals. So, let's air the dirty laundry and fix the problem, but let's not pretend that state-ownership is a panacea.
The State wouldn't have had paedophilliac priests. And before we go off on a "few bad apples" again, let's remember the lengths the Church went to to shield this criminals from justice.
The State wouldn't have had paedophilliac priests. And before we go off on a "few bad apples" again, let's remember the lengths the Church went to to shield this criminals from justice.
No, the state didn't have paedophilliac priests, just paedophillac principles and teachers. There are fewer state-run schools and most of those are at the second level. Still, the state did manage to have decades-long sex abuse scandals. As the state schools tend to cater to those at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder the victims are less eloquent and, therefore, less able to launch a public campaign. They're out there, though.
And, if the state didn't hide those who committe such acts from justice (if - they had no trouble hiding the blood scandal perpetrators) it was only because the VEC body was so remote from the school that the victims and their parents didn't know where to turn.
Nice to see someone agree with me.
Also Eagle is rights abuse would happen in state run schools as well. THe catholic church running the schools was never the problam. The Bishops who hid it were the problam
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